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	<title>Comments on: Richard Stallman came to Vancouver, and I upset him</title>
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	<link>http://weblawg.costinmedia.com/wp/intellectual-property/richard-stallman-came-to-vancouver-and-i-upset-him/</link>
	<description>Information Society through the Prism of Law</description>
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		<title>By: Nimda Sys</title>
		<link>http://weblawg.costinmedia.com/wp/intellectual-property/richard-stallman-came-to-vancouver-and-i-upset-him/comment-page-1/#comment-1998</link>
		<dc:creator>Nimda Sys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 06:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblawg.costinmedia.com/wp/?p=186#comment-1998</guid>
		<description>More discussion on this subject over at Rastin Mehr&#039;s blog:
http://blog.rmdstudio.com/2009/03/01/the-4-software-freedoms-according-to-richard-stallman/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More discussion on this subject over at Rastin Mehr&#8217;s blog:<br />
<a href="http://blog.rmdstudio.com/2009/03/01/the-4-software-freedoms-according-to-richard-stallman/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.rmdstudio.com/2009/03/01/the-4-software-freedoms-according-to-richard-stallman/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bougerolle</title>
		<link>http://weblawg.costinmedia.com/wp/intellectual-property/richard-stallman-came-to-vancouver-and-i-upset-him/comment-page-1/#comment-1868</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bougerolle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblawg.costinmedia.com/wp/?p=186#comment-1868</guid>
		<description>According to the WIPO, the first treaties on patents, trademarks and copyrights date back to the 1880&#039;s, but it wasn&#039;t until around 1970 that they expanded into the more abstract notion of &quot;Intellectual Property.&quot;

Whatever the intent of these laws and treaties, the practical and political effect of the &quot;intellectual property&quot; idea has been to make it easy to argue that you &quot;own&quot; a claim to your creations in the same way you own a coffee mug.  That happens because most people don&#039;t see property and ownership as the abstract notions that they are.  They just hear &quot;property&quot; and automatically react, picturing ideas of ownership that are much more in line with coffee mugs than copyrights.

This gives the advantage to many middlemen who work the system and contribute little - patent trolls and recording industry associations being the most well-known.  How else can you explain that so many ordinary people are quick and even proud to agree with the silly idea that piracy is theft?  I&#039;m sure that advantage is not a coincidence; there&#039;s an active lobby trying to push the matter and exploit the system even more.  Disney is notorious for this.

I say that accepting the generalization of &quot;Intellectual Property&quot; at all is a fundamental tactical error.  We shouldn&#039;t skip over asking fundamental questions like &quot;Why should people have any right to intangible creations?&quot;  The only really good answers I&#039;ve heard to such questions are all practical (&quot;Because otherwise they have no incentive to create&quot;) and those matters should be pursued on a limited practical basis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to the WIPO, the first treaties on patents, trademarks and copyrights date back to the 1880&#8242;s, but it wasn&#8217;t until around 1970 that they expanded into the more abstract notion of &#8220;Intellectual Property.&#8221;</p>
<p>Whatever the intent of these laws and treaties, the practical and political effect of the &#8220;intellectual property&#8221; idea has been to make it easy to argue that you &#8220;own&#8221; a claim to your creations in the same way you own a coffee mug.  That happens because most people don&#8217;t see property and ownership as the abstract notions that they are.  They just hear &#8220;property&#8221; and automatically react, picturing ideas of ownership that are much more in line with coffee mugs than copyrights.</p>
<p>This gives the advantage to many middlemen who work the system and contribute little &#8211; patent trolls and recording industry associations being the most well-known.  How else can you explain that so many ordinary people are quick and even proud to agree with the silly idea that piracy is theft?  I&#8217;m sure that advantage is not a coincidence; there&#8217;s an active lobby trying to push the matter and exploit the system even more.  Disney is notorious for this.</p>
<p>I say that accepting the generalization of &#8220;Intellectual Property&#8221; at all is a fundamental tactical error.  We shouldn&#8217;t skip over asking fundamental questions like &#8220;Why should people have any right to intangible creations?&#8221;  The only really good answers I&#8217;ve heard to such questions are all practical (&#8220;Because otherwise they have no incentive to create&#8221;) and those matters should be pursued on a limited practical basis.</p>
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		<title>By: Seva</title>
		<link>http://weblawg.costinmedia.com/wp/intellectual-property/richard-stallman-came-to-vancouver-and-i-upset-him/comment-page-1/#comment-1858</link>
		<dc:creator>Seva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 07:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblawg.costinmedia.com/wp/?p=186#comment-1858</guid>
		<description>&quot;I also personally agree with him that IP is a relatively new notion&quot;

Is it really? I thought the the concept of author&#039;s rights was known in Ancient Greece and Rome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I also personally agree with him that IP is a relatively new notion&#8221;</p>
<p>Is it really? I thought the the concept of author&#8217;s rights was known in Ancient Greece and Rome.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bougerolle</title>
		<link>http://weblawg.costinmedia.com/wp/intellectual-property/richard-stallman-came-to-vancouver-and-i-upset-him/comment-page-1/#comment-1815</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bougerolle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 02:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblawg.costinmedia.com/wp/?p=186#comment-1815</guid>
		<description>I see.  Thanks for the correction.

Stallman is a well-known fanatic, but I appreciate that.  We do need to be reasonable and listen to people in general and accommodate their views ... BUT ... there&#039;s also a place for crusaders.  People are basically lazy and resist change, so society never progresses in some areas (quite important ones, even) until and unless somebody decides to stand up and not compromise on things that matter.  

Free Software involves such issues, and I think it is a good thing that RMS is unyielding on his principles.  I also personally agree with him that IP is a relatively new notion, a wrong-headed one, and better denied than subverted or attacked strategically.  I won&#039;t shout at you about it, because it&#039;s not one of my own crusades, but I am sympathetic to him.

I even find myself thinking the same way at times.  I have two crusades of my own - the metric system and UTF-8.  More people need to be stubborn bastards and insist that we use both of these, and I&#039;m willing to volunteer.  Just the other week I toasted somebody who was foolish enough to use the word &quot;ounces&quot; while arguing with me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see.  Thanks for the correction.</p>
<p>Stallman is a well-known fanatic, but I appreciate that.  We do need to be reasonable and listen to people in general and accommodate their views &#8230; BUT &#8230; there&#8217;s also a place for crusaders.  People are basically lazy and resist change, so society never progresses in some areas (quite important ones, even) until and unless somebody decides to stand up and not compromise on things that matter.  </p>
<p>Free Software involves such issues, and I think it is a good thing that RMS is unyielding on his principles.  I also personally agree with him that IP is a relatively new notion, a wrong-headed one, and better denied than subverted or attacked strategically.  I won&#8217;t shout at you about it, because it&#8217;s not one of my own crusades, but I am sympathetic to him.</p>
<p>I even find myself thinking the same way at times.  I have two crusades of my own &#8211; the metric system and UTF-8.  More people need to be stubborn bastards and insist that we use both of these, and I&#8217;m willing to volunteer.  Just the other week I toasted somebody who was foolish enough to use the word &#8220;ounces&#8221; while arguing with me.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Costin</title>
		<link>http://weblawg.costinmedia.com/wp/intellectual-property/richard-stallman-came-to-vancouver-and-i-upset-him/comment-page-1/#comment-1804</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Costin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 05:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblawg.costinmedia.com/wp/?p=186#comment-1804</guid>
		<description>Moglen has been heavily involved with the FSF and was a co-author of GPLv3, but rms himself was the author of the original supposedly.  Of course, it&#039;s hard to find any hard data on that other than rms himself saying so repeatedly.

Interesting though that now that a well-respected legal academic and lawyer has been involved, the GPL has developed a reputation for being prolix and unmanageable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moglen has been heavily involved with the FSF and was a co-author of GPLv3, but rms himself was the author of the original supposedly.  Of course, it&#8217;s hard to find any hard data on that other than rms himself saying so repeatedly.</p>
<p>Interesting though that now that a well-respected legal academic and lawyer has been involved, the GPL has developed a reputation for being prolix and unmanageable.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bougerolle</title>
		<link>http://weblawg.costinmedia.com/wp/intellectual-property/richard-stallman-came-to-vancouver-and-i-upset-him/comment-page-1/#comment-1798</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bougerolle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:24:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://weblawg.costinmedia.com/wp/?p=186#comment-1798</guid>
		<description>As I recall, Eben Moglen wrote the GPL and not Stallman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I recall, Eben Moglen wrote the GPL and not Stallman.</p>
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